tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post7191636765972270098..comments2023-12-21T06:35:36.624-05:00Comments on Recursivity: John Lennox - Talk #1: "Do Science and God Mix?"Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger29125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-49236849866278862812015-10-13T03:16:38.041-04:002015-10-13T03:16:38.041-04:00"Repeating nonsense doesn't make it more ..."Repeating nonsense doesn't make it more meaningful, I'm afraid. Go bother someone else."<br /><br />So you mean to say that science has not shown in STR that at the speed of light time totally stops?uchitrakarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09317803821391979129noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-87690501891944283732015-10-09T04:49:39.035-04:002015-10-09T04:49:39.035-04:00...but 0ne day, someday the M@hsiah will deliver u......but 0ne day, someday the M@hsiah will deliver us from ign0rance.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11132121296728341268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-28126581116898452862015-10-07T04:53:07.923-04:002015-10-07T04:53:07.923-04:00God only knows.God only knows.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11132121296728341268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-61001300003061348392015-10-06T17:35:24.375-04:002015-10-06T17:35:24.375-04:00I see what you're saying Bert, but I wonder wh...I see what you're saying Bert, but I wonder what you mean by some cases?JvOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17730272657777338399noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-594033053805108912015-10-06T05:47:25.181-04:002015-10-06T05:47:25.181-04:00I believe in a god who in some cases acts from a z...I believe in a god who in some cases acts from a zero-tolerance policy.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11132121296728341268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-26162785258643061602015-10-05T17:37:51.607-04:002015-10-05T17:37:51.607-04:00Repeating nonsense doesn't make it more meanin...Repeating nonsense doesn't make it more meaningful, I'm afraid. Go bother someone else.Jeffrey Shallithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12763971505497961430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-50675679908356076972015-10-05T13:14:49.356-04:002015-10-05T13:14:49.356-04:00And I will repeat this question again: what is tim...And I will repeat this question again: what is timeless in this universe that required an explanation from science?uchitrakarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09317803821391979129noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-7509390672070270132015-10-05T04:57:39.833-04:002015-10-05T04:57:39.833-04:00It is an excellent helping of word salad. I hope ...It is an excellent helping of word salad. I hope you enjoyed it.Jeffrey Shallithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12763971505497961430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-72388341707968214892015-10-05T02:50:44.215-04:002015-10-05T02:50:44.215-04:00Here is one more question. If science shows that e...Here is one more question. If science shows that every aspect of this phenomenal world, including the origin of the universe also, can be explained without invoking any kind of god, then that will definitely go against all kinds of supernatural claims, and naturalism will establish itself as the ultimate truth. However there is at least one aspect of nature that has not yet been addressed properly by the physicists. And it is this: The prevailing view among the physicists regarding the origin of the universe is that it has actually originated from nothing. If it is true, then that will mean that not only the total matter and energy, but the total space-time as well, of this universe have originated from nothing. So not only its total matter and energy, but its total space-time also should always remain zero, because all the four of them have originated from nothing. Physicists have so far shown how the total matter and energy of our present universe always remain zero, but they have not yet shown how its total space-time also always remains zero. As the universe is expanding at an accelerating rate, so the question to be addressed by the physicists will be: How does the total space-time of an ever-expanding universe always remain zero?<br />If science cannot provide a suitable answer to this question, then the naturalistic world-view of modern science will prove to be inadequate for explaining the real world. <br />uchitrakarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09317803821391979129noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-88727367243329899582015-10-05T02:10:15.140-04:002015-10-05T02:10:15.140-04:00But this does not answer my question: What is time...But this does not answer my question: What is timeless in this universe that required an explanation from science?uchitrakarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09317803821391979129noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-1579849890753496912015-10-04T09:30:41.925-04:002015-10-04T09:30:41.925-04:00Wonderful word salad, uchitrakar! But you forgot ...Wonderful word salad, uchitrakar! But you forgot to randomly capitalize words.<br /><br />Personally, I think there are an uncountable number of gods, and each of them has all the characteristics you mentioned except "one". Jeffrey Shallithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12763971505497961430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-3055654803702252382015-10-04T01:11:48.541-04:002015-10-04T01:11:48.541-04:00God is said to be spaceless, timeless, changeless,...God is said to be spaceless, timeless, changeless, immortal, all-pervading, one, unborn, uncreated, without any beginning, without an end, everlasting and non-composite. If God does not exist, then there will be no one about whom it can be said that he is spaceless, timeless, immortal etc. <br />So God does not exist means nothing is timeless in this universe. If nothing is timeless, then why was it necessary for science to explain how anything could be timeless? This is because in special theory of relativity it has been shown that at the speed of light time totally stops.<br />By denying the existence of God science is denying the existence of any permanent state of timelessness in this universe. In spite of that science has shown how a state of timelessness can be reached. Is it not self-contradictory on the part of science?<br />uchitrakarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09317803821391979129noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-39802105954245765882015-04-10T01:31:47.330-04:002015-04-10T01:31:47.330-04:00Yes agreed Steve that applies to all of us; at the...Yes agreed Steve that applies to all of us; at the boundary of knowledge we stand. There is indeed a limit as to how much and what we are able to comprehend on this side of the grave. To venture beyond I don’t think that curiosity or hunger for knowledge would do anything for anybody. As the saying is; “ It is not what you know, but who you know”, that matters.JvOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17730272657777338399noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-90135442959256399472015-04-09T17:32:48.264-04:002015-04-09T17:32:48.264-04:00Thanks Steve for that acknowledgement in part, tha...Thanks Steve for that acknowledgement in part, that nobody thinks we know it all. Why then your presumption on the existence of the God of our creation that no reputable scientist rules out.<br />As for the other part that was not clear to you, I'll put it another way. Would you not agree that mankind all too often has been too clever for its own good? And when you look around and read the daily papers, would you not agree we need protection from ourselves? I used as an example this time how we knowledgeable people are not dealing with global warming issues, yes a potential...Self-destruct!JvOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17730272657777338399noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-61130857438043431132015-04-09T16:55:47.079-04:002015-04-09T16:55:47.079-04:00Steve: Thanks for the clarification.Steve: Thanks for the clarification.GalileoUnchainedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09671825540895865252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-57665030433655373142015-04-09T13:03:54.807-04:002015-04-09T13:03:54.807-04:00Galileo: ?? I think you have misread my comment in...Galileo: ?? I think you have misread my comment in a way that reverses its meaning. I am an atheist. To be clear: it is an observed fact, not a "presupposition", that the evidence is very much against Christian belief.<br /><br />JvO: Your writing is....unclear. To respond to the only point I can make sense of: except for certain kinds of religious people, pretty much no one thinks "that we know it all and have the answer for everything". Certainly not scientists, whose business it is to know and ask the questions at the boundaries of our knowledge.<br />Steve Watsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06022832831084750602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-6609516760588151892015-04-09T09:33:48.177-04:002015-04-09T09:33:48.177-04:00Steve: What arguments or evidence do you find most...Steve: What arguments or evidence do you find most compelling to argue for the Christian god? <br /><br />Are these arguments what made you a Christian, or was there some other reason?GalileoUnchainedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09671825540895865252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-77479929166179925342015-04-09T06:41:35.964-04:002015-04-09T06:41:35.964-04:00Steve, the question was;" do God and science ...Steve, the question was;" do God and science mix" I have given my opinion on this in a broad outline and gave a practical example of how it could affect mankind if we assume that we know it all and have the answer for everything. I would like to give you another example also on a scientific level. We live in a world that is confronted by a phenomenon called global warming. We largely know the ins and the outs of it and what to do to prevent it, but the problem as we all know is not the science aspect, but human nature. You see, we, mankind, we are a clever bunch, but all too often too clever for our own good and too selfish to do something about it.JvOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17730272657777338399noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-54481268229193754122015-04-08T11:00:04.995-04:002015-04-08T11:00:04.995-04:00JvO: You may presuppose whatever you like, but it ...JvO: You may presuppose whatever you like, but it is *not* a presupposition that there is little to no evidence for, and considerable evidence against, the Christian God and various other claims in the Bible. That is a fact, and I do mean a black-and-white one.<br /><br />Steve Watsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06022832831084750602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-38243068792422710532015-04-08T03:59:25.791-04:002015-04-08T03:59:25.791-04:00Hi Galileo, you made your point and I accept that....Hi Galileo, you made your point and I accept that.When it's all said and done we all presuppose from time to time on issues that are not black and white. My reason for sharing with you my thoughts on God and His word, the Bible, is because that's where I found my purpose, direction,fulfillment and hope in life that goes beyond life on this planet. I wish the same for you or anyone who is seeking for this.<br />Kind regards, Jim<br /><br /><br />JvOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17730272657777338399noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-47003494315961275192015-04-07T18:36:24.473-04:002015-04-07T18:36:24.473-04:00JvO: If we presuppose God, then your point makes s...JvO: If we presuppose God, then your point makes sense. <br /><br />I don't presuppose God. Bible verses won't convince me.GalileoUnchainedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09671825540895865252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-38084980348363523292015-04-07T03:15:01.297-04:002015-04-07T03:15:01.297-04:00Yes and no, it's all a matter of humility and ...<br /><br />Yes and no, it's all a matter of humility and if you want to be at the top of the grade take notice of the Teacher who said;" I have got much more to tell you, much more than you can handle !" ....... If we pitch cosmic accident against intelligent design I would say we turn science, like fire, from a good tool into a bad master, probably in more ways than one. Actually the whole question is an ambiguous one suggesting that there could be a reason for God to disapprove of that which He used to create this universe, that which we call science but that in reality is an infinitely small portion of His wisdom. God’s wisdom and science are perfectly compatible, if there is any suggestion that they are not, it is nothing less than a presumptuous pride on the part of puny man pulling himself up by his bootlaces. Job 38:3-5<br /><br />Just a question or two:<br />What is a 5 year old's saving grace not to be electrocuted?<br />Is it his knowledge of electronics?<br />Or his obedience to his dad not to poke those scissors in that power point?<br />What does this suggest to us in our relationship to our Heavenly Father with an infinitely greater knowledge gap and infinitely greater love.?<br />What does that tell us about;<br />curiosity,<br />pride<br />obedience,<br />learning,<br />discipline and<br />faith ?<br /><br />If we have no intelligent answers on how we deal with these matters and how to live in harmony with our fellow human beings in a responsible and rewarding way on planet Earth , how will we ever graduate to our higher calling?<br />Do God and man's interpretation of science mix? I'll leave that to your imagination.JvOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17730272657777338399noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-54121782514430509422015-03-23T10:09:00.036-04:002015-03-23T10:09:00.036-04:00Thank you Jeff for taking the time to post this. I...Thank you Jeff for taking the time to post this. Interesting.<br />I'm amazed that in 2015 so many people still believe in religious nonsense.<br />The mental gymnastics involved to self deceive must be tiring for them.oldgarageluvverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01014886605752281939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-38878026185277383092015-03-20T06:02:09.682-04:002015-03-20T06:02:09.682-04:00Luke: I am aware of the distinction between the &...Luke: I am aware of the distinction between the "common Christian assertion" and the cosmological argument. <br /><br />But, you see, claims like "God exists necessarily" are just philosophical babble, as are phrases like "begin to exist" and "cause". You're a physicist, so you know as well as I do that "cause" is a vague and imprecise term, and it could well be that there are genuinely uncaused events (such as radioactive decay). <br /><br />As for Feser, don't make me laugh. He's the perfect example of someone who thinks he is thinking, all the while manipulating vague terms as if they were mathematical objects. <br />Jeffrey Shallithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12763971505497961430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-92058893564869859402015-03-19T23:01:05.410-04:002015-03-19T23:01:05.410-04:00Good stuff, Jeff. Plenty of groans, there. Especia...Good stuff, Jeff. Plenty of groans, there. Especially credential inflation.<br /><br />"The common Christian assertion that 'everything that exists has a cause'."<br /><br />That is not how the cosmological argument goes. It is occasionally how atheists present the argument (Rebecca Goldstein, for example), but all of its main theistic defenders are at pains to deny that premise, rightly or wrongly. Responding to that "version" of the argument is like critiquing a laymans "the big bang was a big explosion" version of modern cosmology.<br /><br />The point of the cosmological argument is not that God exists eternally but that God exists necessarily. The atheist could say that the argument proves a necessary being, and that being is the universe. Or could deny that the argument proves anything, perhaps by denying the relevant version of the principle of sufficient reason. "Who made God?" is not the best way to phrase this response.<br /><br />http://edwardfeser.blogspot.com.au/2011/07/so-you-think-you-understand.htmllukebarneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03245704613008522157noreply@blogger.com