tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post8163988103277928599..comments2023-12-21T06:35:36.624-05:00Comments on Recursivity: God and Reason, Session 8: "The Next Step"Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-57030310831950213262013-03-28T22:32:54.468-04:002013-03-28T22:32:54.468-04:00"Now you want me to discourse on the thought ..."Now you want me to discourse on the thought processes of an imaginary person you invented?"<br /><br />Of course not. What I wanted you to do is demonstrate why "Doubt springs from a kind of faith" is any more or less valid than "Doubt is the opposite of faith." It's way too subjective to answer. Casey Hunternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-19098522272700978632013-03-25T10:52:05.027-04:002013-03-25T10:52:05.027-04:00From Reginald Selkirk:
"if Jesus is the creat...From Reginald Selkirk:<br />"<i>if Jesus is the creator of the universe, who exists beyond time...</i><br /><br />Wha? Is this verbatim from North?"<br /><br />It's pretty standard Christian theology that Jesus is co-eternal with God the father - they don't think that he came into existence 2000 years ago; he just came down in human form then.<br /><br />That's what they say anyway, not that it makes any sense.Curt Cameronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08048312089881459521noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-76668667778508933302013-03-24T18:27:17.906-04:002013-03-24T18:27:17.906-04:00Was Cornelius' reaction based on his doubt tha...<i>Was Cornelius' reaction based on his doubt that the poker hands were truly random, or was it based on his conviction that they weren't?</i><br /><br />Now you want me to discourse on the thought processes of an imaginary person you invented?<br /><br />Go away and troll someone else.Jeffrey Shallithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12763971505497961430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-13082942390907978832013-03-24T17:21:11.518-04:002013-03-24T17:21:11.518-04:00"original argument" = the sentence "..."original argument" = the sentence "Doubt springs from a kind of faith," and your rebuttal to it.<br />Was Cornelius' reaction based on his doubt that the poker hands were truly random, or was it based on his conviction that they weren't?Casey Hunternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-89060805894395038052013-03-24T09:26:51.901-04:002013-03-24T09:26:51.901-04:00It's impossible to say which of these two posi...<i>It's impossible to say which of these two positions is right or wrong.</i><br /><br />I don't think they are "positions"; I was talking about the common meanings of words.<br /><br /><i> Hopefully, now you see why I think the original argument borders on silly.<br /></i><br /><br />No, since I have no idea what you are considering the "original argument".Jeffrey Shallithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12763971505497961430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-44137782242464390752013-03-24T00:09:30.135-04:002013-03-24T00:09:30.135-04:00Doubt is the opposite of faith. Faith is believing...<i>Doubt is the opposite of faith. Faith is believing in the absence of evidence; doubt is saying the evidence is insufficient. </i><br /><br />It's impossible to say which of these two positions is right or wrong. They are too subjective. <br />The whole argument borders on silly. Let me illustrate.<br /><br />Imaging standing next to a guy, we'll call him Cornelius Luskin, playing a game of poker in Las <br />Vegas. He casually watches the physically imposing dealer shuffle the cards, and then pass out the <br />cards.<br />Cornelius looks at his cards and, lo and behold, a straight flush!<br />He puts in all his money, and then watches as the dealer reveals his own hand:<br />a royal flush! Cornelius loses everything.<br />Cornelius looks askew at the dealer and exclaims: I doubt that set of hands was just bad luck.<br />The dealer huffs back: Are you saying that you believe I cheated?<br />Cornelius meekly responds: I didn't say that. I just don't think it was accidental.<br />The dealer responds: So you're saying you believe it was premeditated!<br />Cornelius dismisses him, saying: I don't "believe" anything. Stop putting words in my mouth.<br /><br />Hopefully, now you see why I think the original argument borders on silly.Casey Hunternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-62418467067960204602013-03-23T12:11:14.563-04:002013-03-23T12:11:14.563-04:00Wha? Is this verbatim from North?
Yes, if my not...<i>Wha? Is this verbatim from North? </i><br /><br />Yes, if my notes are correct.Jeffrey Shallithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12763971505497961430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-20899500120778015582013-03-23T10:08:08.087-04:002013-03-23T10:08:08.087-04:00if Jesus is the creator of the universe, who exist...<i>if Jesus is the creator of the universe, who exists beyond time...</i><br />.<br />Wha? Is this verbatim from North? These seem to be statements about God. But accepting (<i>ad arguendum</i>) the Christian Trinity, both of these claims would be about God the Father, not about Jesus his son. If Jesus existed as a man who was born in Palestine ~ two millenia ago, lived a normal lifespan, then died by crucifixion; he most certainly was not "beyond time."<br />Reginald Selkirknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-68089540155909554302013-03-23T10:00:44.318-04:002013-03-23T10:00:44.318-04:00Pascal: ... Pascal was one of many renowned scient...<i>Pascal: ... Pascal was one of many renowned scientists and academics who were Christians. This shows it is possible to be a Christian and be respectable intellectually.</i><br />.<br />Pascal died in 1662. He accepted neither Darwin's theory of evolution through means of natural selection, nor the theory of relativity. (Because neither had been thought up during his time.) For bleep's sake, he didn't even accept Newton's laws of motion! This is their example of someone who is scientifically respectable? Why do they have to dig so deep into the past?<br />Reginald Selkirknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-64242670891751439972013-03-23T00:35:13.540-04:002013-03-23T00:35:13.540-04:00Reading this series was emotionally exhausting--th...Reading this series was emotionally exhausting--these pious pedants are so self-righteous, depthless and turgid I felt as if I was treading water at an event horizon. One bright spot: at least the United States is not the only country that produces these nitwits in such numbers ... Of course, that's also pretty scary.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08407210117304897641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-3259535445372855952013-03-22T22:13:44.268-04:002013-03-22T22:13:44.268-04:00These parts are perhaps the most absurd:
every li...These parts are perhaps the most absurd:<br /><br /><i>every little child is worth the world</i><br /><br />To the God of the Bible? Hello? How much infanticide is there in the Bible? Book of Exodus, Book of Joshua, Psalm 137, etc.<br /><br />If a kid is disobedient, you stone him to death, according to Leviticus.<br /><br />The Christian God doesn't just "let them die." He commands us to kill them in many different situations.<br /><br /><i>"Without the shedding of blood there is no remission..." (Hebrews 9:22)</i><br /><br />Bare assertion. How can we know this or how could we anticipate it outside of bare assertion? We would never guess such a horrible idea by analogy to any human feeling or emotion or relationship. <br /><br />It would never follow from induction, from analogy, or by making testable predictions. It's an ad hoc claim to make Christianity sound plausible.<br /><br /><i>rich people donate more near the end of their lives, in order to ensure hope in the afterlife.</i><br /><br />Like atheist Bill Gates?<br /><br /><i>forgiveness is the basis of faith and is the basis of all relationships</i><br /><br />Bullshit! Trust is the basis of relationships. Tell people the truth so you don't lose their trust.<br /><br />People can forgive, but in many situations, if you've lost their trust, you can't get it back. So forgiveness may not be possible and you can't count on forgiveness.Diogeneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15551943619872944637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-10647696658905092822013-03-22T22:02:16.206-04:002013-03-22T22:02:16.206-04:00Emily Dickinson a Christian!
Dickinson's char...Emily Dickinson a Christian!<br /><br />Dickinson's character was largely formed by her resistance to the bullying of evangelical Christians.<br /><br />In her time New England was being swept by a wave of evangelical "enthusiasm". Many people were forced to knuckle under, get down on their knees and pronounce themselves sinners-- it worked like the Red Guard. Including Dickinson's father, who was forced to get down on his knees and call himself a sinner. <br /><br />But Emily wouldn't be bullied. If you read <i>Lives Like Loaded Guns</i>, a really excellent biography, when she was in girls' school she was notorious as a free thinker. She was the smartest in school and also independent, so other girls were sent to spy on her and report on what she was up to.<br /><br />The headmaster would gather all the girls and ask the "Christians" to stand up. Dickinson wouldn't stand up. That was basically a public announcement that she was not a Christian. She suffered a lot for that.<br /><br />I should set about editing her Wikipedia page; it's not very accurate.<br /><br />As for other non-Christian writers, obviously there's: <br /><br />Mark Twain (whose <i>Letters from the Earth</i> is the funniest agnostic, or deistic, manifesto, very anti-Bible, really required reading),<br /><br />Walt Whitman who was a deist, <br /><br />Thomas Paine who was a deist,<br /><br />Abraham Lincoln, a beautiful writer and a deist who liked the Bible but never said anything about Jesus,<br /><br />Jack Kerouac, who at most interpreted Catholicism metaphorically,<br /><br />and Bob Dylan, who had a Christian phase he got over-- I count Dylan as a literary hero because <i>Chronicles</i> is a great beat novel.<br /><br />To this many others could be added, Richard Wright, Richard Brautigan, etc.Diogeneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15551943619872944637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-45551331423305900662013-03-22T15:58:24.015-04:002013-03-22T15:58:24.015-04:00Percy Bysshe Shelley ... was expelled from Oxford ...<i>Percy Bysshe Shelley ... was expelled from Oxford and lost custody of his children after he published The Necessity of Atheism. How many people of those times would have dared to admit they were atheist, considering the consequences?</i><br />Was the custody loss due to his publishing of this book, or because of his messed up love life?William Godwinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-83287533966286476422013-03-22T11:35:10.032-04:002013-03-22T11:35:10.032-04:00Shakespeare's religion - from Wikipedia.<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Shakespeare's_religion" rel="nofollow">Shakespeare's religion</a> - from Wikipedia.Jeffrey Shallithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12763971505497961430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-42691266084541476222013-03-22T11:26:26.668-04:002013-03-22T11:26:26.668-04:00How does he know that Shakespeare was a Christian?...How does he know that Shakespeare was a Christian? Was it because of all the plays that use Bible stories as their source? Oh, wait...KeithBnoreply@blogger.com