tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post8194649305980422147..comments2023-12-21T06:35:36.624-05:00Comments on Recursivity: Why We Never Lied to Our Kids About SantaUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger97125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-43387245613353731002012-11-24T10:24:07.722-05:002012-11-24T10:24:07.722-05:00Analiese - all I can say is, my experience is diff...Analiese - all I can say is, my experience is different from yours. The headlines are full of Christians behaving badly. Do the names Allen West, Joseph Farah, Roy Moore, Franklin Graham, Bryan Fischer, Ken Ham, Todd Akin sound familiar? <br /><br />All over the world many people behave kindly towards each other without Christianity, and many Christians are guilty of the worst behavior. So it is clear your proposed solution is not much of one.Jeffrey Shallithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12763971505497961430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-81554616316858506352012-11-23T17:18:04.840-05:002012-11-23T17:18:04.840-05:00My Mom never lied to me about Santa. It helped me ...My Mom never lied to me about Santa. It helped me trust her (my mother). I knew she would never lie to me no matter how accepted it was to society. My father (divorced) scolded me for thanking him for a present that was labeled from Santa. I think it is better to introduce your children to Christ his forgiveness and consequences for wrong behavior. I have seen many people trying to raise their kids Godlessly and they seem to feel completely OK with doing things as long as they are not caught. <br />Analiese - 14 Analiesenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-20572274699364531362012-04-13T06:40:39.231-04:002012-04-13T06:40:39.231-04:00Great blogpost! I am writing one myself, using som...Great blogpost! I am writing one myself, using some readers quotes from this section. Thanks! soon on www.earthreview.eu<br />I also mentioned this blog in the linksAnnhttp://www.earthreview.eunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-85763391447012273292010-12-21T19:57:24.570-05:002010-12-21T19:57:24.570-05:00Jeffery,
Well written. I can tell learning in you...Jeffery,<br /><br />Well written. I can tell learning in your family is important. Learning about the world around you is not 'dorky', as some of your commentators have suggested. If you think learning is, you probably didn't finish grade school or go on to much else.<br /><br />As a kid growing up with 'Santa' I was a bit devastated to find out he wasn't real when one of my best friends at school told me. When I told my parents they pretended like I was delusional to keep the fantasy going. I lol'd after reading the comments about parents wanting to keep the fantasy going more than the kids. I grew up to be fine with Santa and Christmas but I always thought my mom was a little delusional for wanting to play it out so long lol!<br /><br />Looking back on it, I do feel that it would have been better to tell me the truth and somewhat explain the reasons. The same reasons as per LotusBlossom @ 1:38am on dec 21, "...that Santa was loved by many different cultures and many nations and that Santa represented the goodness and caring and sharing that all people should aspire to all year long."Magusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-5564858001731743152010-12-19T19:46:13.630-05:002010-12-19T19:46:13.630-05:00Wow dude, sounds like a barrel of laughs at your h...Wow dude, sounds like a barrel of laughs at your house(!)Mel Noirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10603806768152473561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-43588202900803614312008-12-30T17:10:00.000-05:002008-12-30T17:10:00.000-05:00Hi, Janet, thanks for writing. I appreciated your...Hi, Janet, thanks for writing. I appreciated your comments very much.<BR/><BR/>What fascinates me about the many reactions to this piece is the large number of people who reacted almost viscerally, as if I was attacking them personally. It points to the strong power of shared rituals in a society, and how people react when you don't share those rituals, or question them.Jeffrey Shallithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12763971505497961430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-39360060563625462132008-12-30T16:40:00.000-05:002008-12-30T16:40:00.000-05:00Hi Jeff,I just read your holiday card to us and de...Hi Jeff,<BR/><BR/>I just read your holiday card to us and decided to read what you had to say about Santa. I will admit that I logged onto this site in a defensive posture, asking myself, "Why can't Jeff leave this subject alone? Doesn't he have any sense that children need illusions, rituals, especially the downtodden who need something they can count on once a year. Once I read your blog on this, I completely understood why you had chosen to write on this subject. You so eloquently expressed a critcial point and that is: the lie builds upon itself, so it's not just one tiny lie, but is repeated each year and can cause confusion within the same season when a child sees more than one Santa. I am sure there are countless awkward and uncomfortable moments between children and parents when the cat is let out of the bag, as children get older and are told the truth from the same trusting parents who perpetuated this innocent "white lie" throughout their formative years. Most importantly, you not only didn't attack people's need for fantasy, but provided great examples of our natural wonders of the world and ended with parental love. <BR/><BR/>Janet NathanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-53311212423529966102008-12-30T02:47:00.000-05:002008-12-30T02:47:00.000-05:00Don't know how I missed this one, but a year back ...Don't know how I missed this one, but a year back I wrote a "retraction" to the "Yes, Virginia..." piece:<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://zeithos.blogspot.com/2008/01/santa-and-universal-morality.html" REL="nofollow">Sorry, Virginia, we made a mistake...</A><BR/><BR/>Enjoy!Erdos56https://www.blogger.com/profile/04426474525236405685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-88811541257248000542008-12-23T20:41:00.000-05:002008-12-23T20:41:00.000-05:00I have been talking to a few friends including my ...I have been talking to a few friends including my wife about this and I was finally able to formulate the way I feel about Santa.<BR/><BR/>To me, Santa Clause is the human representation of the magic of Christmas (or the winter's holidays for non Christians).<BR/><BR/>When our kid will ask us if Santa is real, we will tell him that it is the way HE feels about it that counts. <BR/><BR/>The men in red is only a way to for kids (young and old) to get in touch with the true spirit of this festivity when we give and we receive just for the pleasure of being together.<BR/><BR/>Do I believe in Santa? No! <BR/><BR/>Do I believe in the spirit of the Christmas (as a pagan holiday)? Yes! <BR/><BR/>Am I bothered by the icon that is Santa? No!<BR/><BR/>Do I think I am lying to my son about Santa? No!<BR/><BR/>Merry Christmas or happy holidays if you prefer.Pierre Boucher alias Le Citadinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01993738617720674942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-1215959359028922922008-12-22T14:16:00.000-05:002008-12-22T14:16:00.000-05:00Vivek asks, "The next question - Are you willing t...Vivek asks, "The next question - Are you willing to expose the next big lie that most parents tell their kids?<BR/><BR/>Namely : Allah/Jesus/Krishna/Zarathustra/Yahweh is the only true god and if you follow what he said in the "book" then you get to goto heaven and play with Virgins/Baby Jesus/Angels etc. for all eternity."<BR/><BR/>Jeffrey Shallit: Yeah, my kids are as skeptical about that one as they are about Santa.<BR/><BR/>Good for you. While I respect your opinion about Santa, I do not share it. I respect even more that you show consistency with the religion subject. Again, good for you and your kids.<BR/><BR/>On the other hand, I do not believe lying to our kids about Santa will harm them for sure. As parents, we do enjoy the Santa's fantasy and my son does as well. Will I tell him the truth myself or let him discover it by himself? It all depends. Me and my wife will be the judge of that.<BR/><BR/>For my son, his teddy bear is as real as it can be. Will I tell him it's only made of tissue and stuffing? Why would I do that. When he discovers the truth, will he loose confidence in me? I don't think so. Why would this be different with Santa? Are we having fun? Yap! Is he having fun? You bet he is? It is that important? No! It is the magic of the moment that counts. As long as we do not emphasize it too much.<BR/><BR/>But I still respect your opinion!<BR/><BR/>Merry Christmas!Pierre Boucher alias Le Citadinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01993738617720674942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-40255590892242572602008-12-21T15:07:00.000-05:002008-12-21T15:07:00.000-05:00I am astounded by how vehemently people defend lyi...I am astounded by how vehemently people defend lying to their children. I cannot help but wonder if there is a connection between the eagerness to endorse delusion in our children, and the bizarre pervasiveness of fantastical beliefs held by adults (religion, mysticism, supernaturalism, conspiracies, UFOs, etc.).codyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11407919985914326282noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-15395386326498130772008-12-21T13:39:00.000-05:002008-12-21T13:39:00.000-05:00I was being generous I suppose. Trying not to be ...I was being generous I suppose. Trying not to be offensive to those who believe in Jesus. Personally I do not.Rainniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15111638199699633298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-52953307032937727582008-12-21T08:07:00.000-05:002008-12-21T08:07:00.000-05:00@ arieliondotcom. You state that Jesus is a docume...@ arieliondotcom. You state that Jesus is a documented historical figure. Please cite some non-Biblical sources on that. I think you'll find that there are a lot fewer than you imagine there to be. There is still some debate as to whether Jesus, upon whom the Christian religious myths are bases, was a real human being. At least in the case of Santa Claus, Nicholas of Myra was a real, documented human being and there's no debate about his existence.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-88276484573902945572008-12-21T08:00:00.000-05:002008-12-21T08:00:00.000-05:00Santa Claus is more about the embodiment of the sp...Santa Claus is more about the embodiment of the spirit of happiness and giving. the wonder and excitement. I am not a religious person - in fact I find Santa to be just as real as Jesus. I have no proof either way that either one did or did not exist in reality somewhere. so I choose the fun myth with magic. My daughter knows that I am the one buying the gifts - it is more like a secret penpal than a lie.Rainniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15111638199699633298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-46243564871264270112008-12-21T06:11:00.000-05:002008-12-21T06:11:00.000-05:00Anonymous @ 11:48 PM:Surely you can see the differ...Anonymous @ 11:48 PM:<BR/><BR/>Surely you can see the difference between <I>actively lying</I> to kids about the existence of Santa Claus and <I>not telling them</I> everything about every ugly aspect of the world at every age?<BR/><BR/>Of course there are things I didn't tell my kids when they were 5. Now that they're older, they can learn about the ugliness of the Holocaust and other genocides. <BR/><BR/>Your mistake is that you think the opposite of actively lying is telling a kid everything.Jeffrey Shallithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12763971505497961430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-19313890461655498672008-12-21T04:06:00.000-05:002008-12-21T04:06:00.000-05:00Well, first other kids at school speak about Santa...Well, first other kids at school speak about Santa in the same terms. So there's a social side to its existence that would set non-believers aside, left out. Second, it's good to awaken a child's sense of criticism and doubt. After they learn that he does not exist, they will sop taking everything at face value. It's part of the growing process and the first level of conscious awakening. From now on, I will doubt unless it is confirmed.mac_1https://www.blogger.com/profile/15079249380072452132noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-27412141305409686462008-12-21T04:00:00.000-05:002008-12-21T04:00:00.000-05:00Smiley:My article is about the modern-day legend o...Smiley:<BR/><BR/>My article is about the modern-day legend of Santa Claus -- the man with supernatural powers -- not the historical person. I'm sorry you didn't find it clear. Perhaps reading more carefully might help.Jeffrey Shallithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12763971505497961430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-56514867018136378212008-12-21T03:58:00.000-05:002008-12-21T03:58:00.000-05:00Ben Watson:What's really "dorky" is that you don't...Ben Watson:<BR/><BR/>What's really "dorky" is that you don't seem to know the difference between astrology and astronomy.<BR/><BR/>I'm sorry you never got excited by science. For me, the structure of a cell and the majesty of the cosmos is far, far more enthralling than any religious or commercially-inspired icon.Jeffrey Shallithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12763971505497961430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-69191679137593438172008-12-21T02:46:00.000-05:002008-12-21T02:46:00.000-05:00I knew Santa was a fraud the year my father was la...I knew Santa was a fraud the year my father was laid off from work. It was a pretty barren under the tree that year. Sure, he went back to work eventually and the Christmases got better. But I could never shake the feeling that if I got assed out one Christmas, what about the kids who were always poor?<BR/><BR/>I wish I could have told the truth to my girls, but I think my wife would have divorced me. And her family sure as hell wouldn't have wanted me around for the holidays. So I patiently wait for my daughters to figure it so I can finally throw myself at their mercy.Pathogen's Questhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16150061393601709048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-36063341882598358882008-12-21T02:29:00.000-05:002008-12-21T02:29:00.000-05:00Yes, I too remember that magical moment when I fir...Yes, I too remember that magical moment when I first learned about the tilt of the earth's axis! Or the weeks I would spend in irrepressible anticipation of peering at a cell through the lens of a microscope! Ahh, childhood memories...<BR/><BR/>Yeah, cause kids just LOVE learning about astrology - way more than they love Christmas. Seriously, that might be the dorkiest thing I've ever heard.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-63856216255784532352008-12-21T02:23:00.000-05:002008-12-21T02:23:00.000-05:00I have three kids, and we don't lie to them about ...I have three kids, and we don't lie to them about real-world issues. We don't lie to them about things that impact them. We do, however, allow the lie of imagination to spread.<BR/><BR/>What is imagination but an elaborate lie that you are allowed to live in? Santa is imaginary and there is nothing wrong with feeding that playtime. Saying it is wrong is just like saying that pretending that your childs toy cars actually make sounds and have little people inside of them is deluding them.<BR/><BR/>Children under 6-8 have a very introspective view of their world, we visit them in their world, not in reverse. You can be as stiff as you want with your kids, but I know from experience that they will resent you for it later in life.asdfsadfsdsdgsadghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14971556539087251582noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-63274275828412300062008-12-21T01:44:00.000-05:002008-12-21T01:44:00.000-05:00Various commenters: If you don't care about this a...Various commenters: If you don't care about this article then why did you read it? And then take the time to read the comments and respond?<BR/><BR/>Jeffrey: Thanks for a well-written article discussing a non-standard way of handling the Christmas holiday. <BR/><BR/>I grew up in a Christian home and for my family, Christmas was a religious holiday which is why we also learned about Saint Nicholas and how he came to America. I remember being in a Phoenix, AZ mall and walking past the Mexican Santa, the Caucasian Santa, and the African-American Santa. My mother did not have to lie to me about why. I knew that Santa was loved by many different cultures and many nations and that Santa represented the goodness and caring and sharing that all people should aspire to all year long.<BR/><BR/>I find it interesting that goodness, caring, and sharing were not ideals present in so many of the comments that berated the author for not teaching his children to believe in Santa and other myths.<BR/><BR/>One issue I didn't see discussed, maybe I missed it, but children learn from watching adult behavior. What we do teaches with greater strength than what we say. When we say that lying is wrong, we have to model that behavior. When we explain that we sometimes tell stories to illustrate an idea or to entertain, we get to model that by enjoying plays, reading books, and celebrating Santa Claus.AJ Tivolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18357655487222423669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-81622493006672993652008-12-21T01:38:00.000-05:002008-12-21T01:38:00.000-05:00Fictional characters such as Santa, the tooth fair...Fictional characters such as Santa, the tooth fairy, Mickey Mouse and others offer us as parents the opportunity to enter the pretend world of a child and share it with them.<BR/><BR/>In my opinion, if you call it a "lie" to pretend with your child that these characters exist in their world, then should a child that pretends to be a fireman, teacher, astronaut or doctor be referred to as a liar?<BR/><BR/>I think this is being taken far to seriously. I will continue to pretend alongside my children for as long as they will allow. Whether others choose to do so is up to them and I don't belive that either choice will injure them.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04471115279485573006noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-47885498296105124152008-12-21T01:24:00.000-05:002008-12-21T01:24:00.000-05:00Do parents really think their children believe in ...Do parents really think their children believe in Santa? It always baffled me as early as I can remember that adults thought I was that naive. I think we need to realize that this is a charade that kids play along with because there are presents involved. Come on.fdmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05743733279987307829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-89947572879552198502008-12-21T00:30:00.000-05:002008-12-21T00:30:00.000-05:00This is silly. That's fine if you don't want to do...This is silly. That's fine if you don't want to do the whole Santa thing, but don't think you're somehow better than other people because of it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com