tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post114883081786280249..comments2023-12-21T06:35:36.624-05:00Comments on Recursivity: Debunking Crystal HealingUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger267125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-32776374842367192432021-10-18T15:56:43.380-04:002021-10-18T15:56:43.380-04:00Brilliant reply to Mr “Rational Whatever the Cost”...Brilliant reply to Mr “Rational Whatever the Cost”…!nigelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09021233401617939810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-50312935495610799082021-02-05T08:24:37.740-05:002021-02-05T08:24:37.740-05:00after reading the 'theist using one paracosm t...after reading the 'theist using one paracosm to argue against another' comment, i had to comment. you do on your blog what i do on my social media accounts and books. much respect for the rational thought, critical thinking, and crushing the construct where symbolism kills substance. i am not self promoting, i am trying to connect with another computer scientist who tries to genuinely understand his environment. thank you for existing.<br />https://github.com/distherapy<br />https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08JDYW91G<br />https://distherapy.altervista.orgAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02187133939210429300noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-41292633771161924172020-04-01T02:39:35.614-04:002020-04-01T02:39:35.614-04:00What's wrong with your argument is that it cou...What's wrong with your argument is that it could be applied equally well to every single unproven treatment. For example, suppose I say that putting fried noodles on your head will cure cancer. By your argument, "the most reasonable thing to conclude is that there isn't enough research about it to conclude anything". Is that really sensible? <br /><br />No, it isn't --- because we know something about the properties of noodles, and we know something about how cancer is caused and cured, and there is no plausible causal connection between a tonsorial application of noodles and a cure for cancer.<br /><br />Your other remarks are also ill-thought-out. A perfect crystal actually holds <b>very little information</b>, because it can be described by a very small set of parameters. Yes, you can store information in a crystal, but the way to do this actually to <b>alter</b> part of the crystal structure, so it is <b>no longer</b> a perfect crystal. And anyway, "holding information" is not so amazing. A piece of paper can also "hold information", but I can't put a recipe for pasta on top of someone's head and have the pasta magically appear. <br /><br />Even if crystals held information about cancer, say, how would that information possibly affect cancer in your body just by holding it or being near it? It makes no sense at all.<br /><br />Furthermore, it is simply not the case that "crystals storing information" has anything to do with how information is currently stored in computers. You seem rather ill-informed about what disk and solid-state storage is. <br /><br />Yet another mistake is your claim that it is impossible to test the claims of religion. In fact, there have been numerous studies of (for example) intercessory prayer, and the results have not been encouraging; see <a href="https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/2009/05/15/study-concludes-intercessory-prayer-doesnt-work-christians-twist-the-results/" rel="nofollow">here</a>.<br /><br />Finally, your last mistake is to claim that anyone claims to "know for sure" about crystal healing. The claims are (a) there is no good evidence that it works and (b) there are extremely good reasons (i.e., our understanding of disease and crystals) for assigning the prior probability of the efficacy of crystal healing in the absence of any tests at all as extremely low. Combining (a) and (b) means that the most rational action, in the face of claims made about crystal healing, is to laugh.<br /><br />Jeffrey Shallithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12763971505497961430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-29556677856273919362020-03-31T16:47:04.179-04:002020-03-31T16:47:04.179-04:00If you value truth and call yourself a skeptic the...If you value truth and call yourself a skeptic the most reasonable thing to conclude about crystal healing is that there isn't enough research about it to conclude anything. That study proved crystals (or that specific crystal) don't have any real effect on you if you hold them for a while? Crystals have some amazing properties, like storing information, they are the reason we are able to access your blog and you are able to publish on it. The answer isn't black and white and we might never know for sure but I guarantee that discarding such an interesting thesis for one study that doesn't really disprove it as a whole is as useless as blindly accepting it. Furthermore anything related to magick and or religion can be, by definition, out of what we are able to test empirically, so I think it's safe to say that with our current research anyone who claims to know for sure that it works or doesn't is committing a fallacy, just like claiming the existence or lack there of of god(s), supernatural etc.. It's obviously more dangerous to claim it can heal diseases (specially they can actually be healed otherwise) but that doesn't discredit people who study this in order to better their lives. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18158913614909316076noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-10822839730966277282020-03-13T10:25:23.554-04:002020-03-13T10:25:23.554-04:00RoohaniShop just keeps making the same debunked po...RoohaniShop just keeps making the same debunked points over and over with no new material, and is no longer welcome here.Jeffrey Shallithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12763971505497961430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-14253448722089869662020-03-11T09:32:06.222-04:002020-03-11T09:32:06.222-04:00"My points are as such most of what you use i..."My points are as such most of what you use in your daily life (i.e. clothing) you do not use studies to wear them."<br /><br />My description of your position holds -- and it seems to be far too mild. I don't know whether you are incapable of seeing the difference between making choices for daily clothing, where there is nothing that threatens the health of others, and endorsing bullshit like crystal healing, which can be directly a threat to health when someone who is ill chooses crystal over medical help, or whether you are so fundamentally dishonest you don't care that there is a difference. deanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08279929296814513986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-52886947409227422122020-03-11T07:27:07.174-04:002020-03-11T07:27:07.174-04:00You're being ridiculous.
If I drop a ball, I ...You're being ridiculous.<br /><br />If I drop a ball, I know it will fall to the ground because of the theory of gravity. I do not need to do a study on every different thing I could drop to know if they will fall to the ground.<br /><br />Similarly, I know the physics of shirts, so I do not need to do a study of shirts to know what they can and cannot do.<br /><br />You cannot point to any understanding of how crystals can heal. There is no scientific theory of healing crystals. It could just as well be that crystals harm your health. You refuse to address this possibility.<br /><br />As for what you are selling, anyone can look at your blog and see the preposterous things you are selling (like the "7 days taskheer e hamzaad ring" for $5500 that you claim "will give the user the ability to contact their hamzaad in 7 days"). This is ridiculous and deceptive. Jeffrey Shallithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12763971505497961430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-58589497671124814152020-03-10T17:04:39.208-04:002020-03-10T17:04:39.208-04:00@dean, to use crude language doesn’t help facilita...@dean, to use crude language doesn’t help facilitate any discussion. I’m amazed you can say stupidity in the first place but cannot see my points. My points are as such most of what you use in your daily life (i.e. clothing) you do not use studies to wear them. But you still wear them due to your aggregated experiences that you have accumulated throughout your life. <br /><br />No what is disgusting is to close your eyes to things you don’t want to experience yourself. If other people have experienced relief let them try crystals. If they want conventional medicine, natural remedies, etc. let them use it how they seem fit. My point is you lay the options in front of them and let them choose. These are not babies you are talking about but adults and they have made their own decisions their whole lives. So, let them choose what they want to do. Its simple. <br />syed21188https://www.blogger.com/profile/11374284914406186041noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-82698756574688446952020-03-10T17:04:22.415-04:002020-03-10T17:04:22.415-04:00@Jeffrey, you have yet to answer my question. The ...@Jeffrey, you have yet to answer my question. The whole point whether being life and death or not has no basis in this discussion. So the hypothesis you are proposing is if something is not understood we should just not experience it ourselves? <br /><br />Regarding your earlier point whether of what I sell or do not has no grounds in this discussion as you falsely alleged, I sell crystals as to which I do not.<br />Overall, I am a proponent and love science-based studies on things from natural remedies to crystals, etc. However, I do not just throw something aside if it doesn’t have any studies to back it up.<br />syed21188https://www.blogger.com/profile/11374284914406186041noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-55550754739954628972020-03-10T08:55:34.839-04:002020-03-10T08:55:34.839-04:00"I have yet to hear what studies you read bef..."I have yet to hear what studies you read before wearing your shirt /clothes. You use them without evidence."<br /><br />I didn't think you could make a statement with a higher stupidity level than your previous ones, but you've proven me wrong. Our clothing choices have no bearing on the health of anyone else, or even on ours (barring some odd allergy, I suppose). You are promoting something as a health aid that has absolutely nothing to offer on that front. Telling people with an illness to trust in something that is simply a scam isn't only dangerous to them, it's a disgusting thing to do. deanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08279929296814513986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-62507690509169936702020-03-10T07:39:07.116-04:002020-03-10T07:39:07.116-04:00This is argument is not about life and death.
Act...<i> This is argument is not about life and death.</i><br /><br />Actually it is, if people substitute crystals for actual treatment of life-threatening conditions.Jeffrey Shallithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12763971505497961430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-2113162647079914442020-03-10T07:37:16.006-04:002020-03-10T07:37:16.006-04:00You are not being sensible. People have worn shir...You are not being sensible. People have worn shirts for thousands of years, and we understand the physical principles of how they work.<br /><br />Nobody understands the supposed physical principles by which crystals could heal anyone. No tests have been done that support that they do. The hypothesis that crystals could harm your health is just as believable as that they could help your health.<br /><br />As for selling worthless remedies, anyone can follow the link to your blog to see that that is what you are doing. Why lie?Jeffrey Shallithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12763971505497961430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-9908754824662767892020-03-08T21:38:54.626-04:002020-03-08T21:38:54.626-04:00This is argument is not about life and death. It&#...This is argument is not about life and death. It's about the whole point of having studies done in order to use something. I have yet to hear what studies you read before wearing your shirt /clothes. You use them without evidence. The best as you have already said is that you experienced it and found it to be useful and it works. Likewise, if people are finding benefits what is your issue with it?<br /><br />Furthermore, your assertion that I sell crystals is baseless. Just because I writing about it doesn't mean I am selling it. As the infamous saying goes don't judge a book by its cover.<br /><br />I guess we both have our own point of views.<br /><br />Thank you for replying back to my pointsRoohaniShophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08733703233842764692noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-88459987920742293932020-03-06T08:18:44.802-05:002020-03-06T08:18:44.802-05:00With the current amount of data we have, there is ...With the current amount of data we have, there is a very simple way to determine whether someone claiming crystal healing (or therapeutic touch, or other things in that sphere) can cure X Y Z is a charlatan merely out to scam gullible people: if they're making those claims they're charlatans. deanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08279929296814513986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-89477752452870913172020-03-05T18:45:34.203-05:002020-03-05T18:45:34.203-05:00Oh, and you apparently make your money by convinci...Oh, and you apparently make your money by convincing gullible people to buy this worthless crap. As they say, "It is difficult to convince a man of something when his salary depends on his not understanding it."Jeffrey Shallithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12763971505497961430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-71296050009544462142020-03-05T18:44:23.730-05:002020-03-05T18:44:23.730-05:00I did answer; I pointed out that the comparison wa...I did answer; I pointed out that the comparison was nonsensical. We know how shirts work and if they don't, the consequences are not typically life-threatening. But no one has proposed any remotely plausible mechanism for how crystals could heal people. If you hold a belief without evidence that crystals can heal, why not hold a belief that crystals can damage your health, too? It simply makes no sense.Jeffrey Shallithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12763971505497961430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-68110740920347089922020-03-05T10:23:58.026-05:002020-03-05T10:23:58.026-05:00You didn't answer my question regarding your s...You didn't answer my question regarding your shirt. <br /><br />But if one wants to use crystal healing that is fine. At the end of the day people make their own decisions. <br /><br />Me personally I like to use evidence based medicine most of the time. But I like to give people all their options. Now it is up to them to use it or not. Because if anything works then it should give results. <br /><br />RoohaniShophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08733703233842764692noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-27705222713859547882020-03-05T09:40:24.714-05:002020-03-05T09:40:24.714-05:00"why can’t it be believed in"?
Because ..."why can’t it be believed in"?<br /><br />Because we're not talking about wearing shirts. We're talking about people's health, where there exists an abundant and well-evidenced body of knowledge about how to treat people with diseases.<br /><br />Crystal healers who make wild claims are deceiving people about something for which they have no evidence, and discouraging people from seeking treatments for which there is evidence.<br /><br />You want to make the claims? Then you do the studies.Jeffrey Shallithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12763971505497961430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-78320230983088128952020-03-04T13:55:55.888-05:002020-03-04T13:55:55.888-05:00That is my point that if someone does come with a ...That is my point that if someone does come with a claim in this crystal healing and they say it works then why can’t it be believed in? Why is it thrown away when there are not studies to prove it? <br /><br />Okay one thinks where is the proof? It doesn’t have to only be studies but why not by their experiences? So whatever healing they receive, etc. there is truth to that. One cannot just simply disregard something whenever there are no official studies to back it up. I highly doubt you wore your shirt this morning by thinking what studies were done for it in order for you to believe that it keeps you warm, etc. You experienced it, you’ve felt it work, etc. <br /><br />Furthermore, I agree to your point that no one needs to take it seriously. However, no one needs to dismiss. Just try it for yourself. Its not like one will become poor by purchasing a crystal. At worst you can use it as decoration 😊<br /><br />Regarding the studies, I only see one double blind study posted. Perhaps you can share more? And at the end of the day its only a suggestion that it might not work. But I have to say why can’t people just try it and judge for themselves?<br />RoohaniShophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08733703233842764692noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-40215803475167767552020-03-03T11:55:49.924-05:002020-03-03T11:55:49.924-05:00No, I'm not saying what you claim.
You need...No, I'm not saying what you claim. <br /><br />You need to understand the burden of proof. If you claim crystal healing works, then it's up to YOU to provide the evidence and the studies that support your claim. It's not up to me to disprove your claim.<br /><br />You could say that standing on your head and chanting the word "noodles" is a cure for cancer, but nobody needs to take this claim seriously unless you provide some studies that provide evidence.<br /><br />So far no study has provided evidence that crystal healing works, and the few studies that have been done suggest just the opposite.Jeffrey Shallithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12763971505497961430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-78757750856977203832020-02-29T21:53:14.062-05:002020-02-29T21:53:14.062-05:00So are you saying when there are no studies done o...So are you saying when there are no studies done on something that that something does not work?<br /><br />And to use one study as proof that crystals do not work stands to no reason. RoohaniShophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08733703233842764692noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-470567452309673842020-02-29T04:14:45.072-05:002020-02-29T04:14:45.072-05:00Did you even read the article? There is no evide...Did you even read the article? There is no evidence at all that crystal healing works.Jeffrey Shallithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12763971505497961430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-21296141822235855572020-02-29T00:03:14.000-05:002020-02-29T00:03:14.000-05:00Hello,
Basically it seems that there both sides a...Hello,<br /><br />Basically it seems that there both sides are at a crossroads.<br /><br />At this moment in time it's just people's experiences. Try it and see what happens.<br /><br /><br />AhmedRoohaniShophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08733703233842764692noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-7428243299068354102019-08-08T14:16:55.749-04:002019-08-08T14:16:55.749-04:00https://neurology.arizona.edu/gary-e-schwartz-phd
...https://neurology.arizona.edu/gary-e-schwartz-phd<br /><br />https://www.researchgate.net/scientific-contributions/39671421_Gary_E_Schwartz<br /><br />Evidence you reject and ignore...<br /><br />You throw out what does not fit your preconceived notions...<br /><br />Do you even Look at the links I’ve sent?<br /><br />Again... Pathetic........<br /><br />Rick Royal<br />8•8•19Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10435267294866206081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-29645415884650363172019-06-17T09:02:15.968-04:002019-06-17T09:02:15.968-04:00Gary Schwartz translated: "Waah! They won&#...Gary Schwartz translated: "Waah! They won't publish my crappy papers!"Jeffrey Shallithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12763971505497961430noreply@blogger.com