tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post7872614747871112135..comments2023-12-21T06:35:36.624-05:00Comments on Recursivity: IronyUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger30125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-37984295423862528462010-10-06T07:19:46.004-04:002010-10-06T07:19:46.004-04:00While I have no interest in getting in between Mir...While I have no interest in getting in between Miranda and Jeffrey on this I would like to point out that the reasons for people objecting to the GZM are important.<br /><br />If the (2% of) Muslims are against it because it pokes a stick in the eye of the US and enrages them to bomb more Muslims then that is a very relevant fact, do you not think? And that reasoning certainly goes to show that not everyone objecting to the the GZM is bigoted or irrational.<br /><br />That's not to say most of the objections are bigoted, or emotional and irrational at least, but I think it shows you cannot label everyone with an objection a bigot.March Harehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13116034158087704885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-47507342401446148862010-10-05T20:06:49.152-04:002010-10-05T20:06:49.152-04:00Oops, I meant bigot. Whatever. Wanna rewrite that ...Oops, I meant bigot. Whatever. Wanna rewrite that whole comment assuming I had written 'bigot'?<br /><br />My point is that you don't know how to differentiate between me (as well as millions of Americans like me) who don't like the idea of this mosque near Ground Zero and a few million Moslems who also don't like the idea.Mirandanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-5984990424935794392010-10-05T12:28:55.217-04:002010-10-05T12:28:55.217-04:00Miranda:
It must be really difficult for you, arg...Miranda:<br /><br />It must be really difficult for you, arguing with all those voices in your head.<br /><br />I don't know what your "oft-mentioned" point is.<br /><br />And I never called you a "racist". <br /><br />Keep up the lies, it's just in keeping with your character.Jeffrey Shallithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12763971505497961430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-18110427924596520882010-10-05T08:43:16.626-04:002010-10-05T08:43:16.626-04:00Your avoidance of my oft-mentioned point is even m...Your avoidance of my oft-mentioned point is even <i>more</i> on display.Mirandanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-24549915695889596152010-10-04T15:57:11.525-04:002010-10-04T15:57:11.525-04:00Ah, Miranda's devotion to truth is on display....Ah, Miranda's devotion to truth is on display.<br /><br />Her modus operandi: find an article with a stat that backs her up, but avoid figuring out whether the stat has any meaning at all.Jeffrey Shallithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12763971505497961430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-70445776128363962502010-10-04T14:30:56.351-04:002010-10-04T14:30:56.351-04:00It's pointless to even answer that. Even if on...It's pointless to even answer that. Even if only two percent of Arabs oppose the mosque near Ground Zero, you would have to figure out a way to demonstrate that they are either all racists, like you called me, or that you've found a non-racist explanation for them -- while at the same time demonstrate that an ordinary American like me who opposes the mosque there is still stuck with the racist label.Mirandanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-29775988956534756802010-10-04T04:49:06.934-04:002010-10-04T04:49:06.934-04:00Miranda:
What kind of survey? An online poll?Miranda:<br /><br />What kind of survey? An online poll?Jeffrey Shallithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12763971505497961430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-4587584386453818072010-10-04T03:15:36.787-04:002010-10-04T03:15:36.787-04:00Wow, there sure are lots of racist Muslims out the...Wow, there sure are lots of racist Muslims out there:<br /><br />http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703743504575493711825224290.html<br /><br />"A survey by Elaph, the most respected electronic daily in the Arab world, saw 58% object to the building of the WTC mosque."Mirandanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-62439300525276425672010-09-02T03:06:27.399-04:002010-09-02T03:06:27.399-04:00I'm glad I came back to this post to read your...I'm glad I came back to this post to read your postscripts. Thanks.<br /><br />I wanted to add to my previous comment by offering this post:<br /><br />http://israelmatzav.blogspot.com/2010/09/ground-zero-victory-mosque-imam-on.html<br /><br />"In a true peace it is impossible that a purely Jewish state of Palestine can endure. . . . In a true peace, Israel will, in our lifetimes, become one more Arab country, with a Jewish minority.""Abrahamnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-4897521959656190562010-08-18T19:53:12.524-04:002010-08-18T19:53:12.524-04:00Personally, I don't trust this Imam Feisal Rau...Personally, I don't trust this Imam Feisal Rauf fellow. Here's one reason why:<br /><br />http://bigpeace.com/cbrim/2010/08/17/ground-zero-mosques-hidden-websites-follow-the-shariah/Abrahamnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-63120250873587193132010-08-17T13:09:26.134-04:002010-08-17T13:09:26.134-04:00Eamon, how about the investigation of the leanings...Eamon, how about the investigation of the leanings of Rauf, the driving force behind the building?GeorgeGnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-85521130691741672322010-08-17T11:43:52.283-04:002010-08-17T11:43:52.283-04:00Every objection I have seen to the Cordoba project...Every objection I have seen to the Cordoba project amounts either to some form of blaming all Moslems for 9/11, or paranoia about "Islamic victory" (IOW: obvious bigotry), or "being sensitive" to other people's feelings (IOW: caving to bigotry).<br /><br />Mr. Reid is doing one or the other, and I don't care which.Eamon Knighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04262012749524758120noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-5030300117403477762010-08-16T16:41:39.084-04:002010-08-16T16:41:39.084-04:00Would you believe Harry Reid if he told you he was...Would you believe Harry Reid if he told you he wasn't a bigot?<br /><br />politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/08/16/reid-breaks-with-obama-opposes-mosque-near-ground-zero/Mirandanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-71792350700136593952010-08-15T21:43:34.368-04:002010-08-15T21:43:34.368-04:00Thanks Jeffrey Shallit for clearing up the Asian T...Thanks Jeffrey Shallit for clearing up the Asian Tribune article.<br /><br />I've always thought the Cordoba Center was a ploy to make money. Create an out cry and unload the property for twice what you paid for it. I think the owners will next unveil the 20 ft. neon Muhammad that will shine 24/7. That should do the trick.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-18596742159937637332010-08-12T12:51:40.787-04:002010-08-12T12:51:40.787-04:00Miranda, if your examples were not original, then ...Miranda, if your examples were not original, then my previous comments (i.e. that I find them laughable) extend to those who used them first.<br /><br /><em>You have no idea if they do or don't, and you don't seem to care to find out.</em><br /><br />This is exactly right: I don't care to find the source of a silly comment. You wrote it and if you want to write something more, go ahead and do it, but don't ask me or anybody else to search for references!Takis Konstantopouloshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14675216467783238403noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-38308238356733021812010-08-11T20:30:09.728-04:002010-08-11T20:30:09.728-04:00Well, were the three Muslims I quoted, the ones wh...Well, were the three Muslims I quoted, the ones who disapprove of the mosque near Ground Zero, bigots or not?Mirandanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-26129867217429177502010-08-11T09:18:44.312-04:002010-08-11T09:18:44.312-04:00The problem with viewing the Muslim Centre as a &#...The problem with viewing the Muslim Centre as a <i>'conquest'</i> is that they were perfectly able to build their centre there before 9/11 so nothing has actually changed.<br /><br />I'm sure some will not see it that way but if I had conquered somewhere I'd want some additional benefits to those I had beforehand.March Harehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13116034158087704885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-5256030666111043582010-08-10T18:37:45.477-04:002010-08-10T18:37:45.477-04:00> "Glad to see you agree that your example...> "Glad to see you agree that your examples (Cordoba, etc.) had nothing to do with the muslim center."<br /><br />You have no idea if they do or don't, and you don't seem to care to find out.Mirandanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-79596477617464499382010-08-10T07:24:30.210-04:002010-08-10T07:24:30.210-04:00Miranda, you are welcome. Glad to see you agree th...Miranda, you are welcome. Glad to see you agree that your examples (Cordoba, etc.) had nothing to do with the muslim center.<br /><br />Ideally, in an ideal world, we'd have no need for muslim or christian centers, no mosques, no churches, no need for one of the most idiotic human concepts, i.e. religion. Unfortunately, people seem to have a need for it because they are not able to think rationally; they have a need for myths. So, what can we do? Let them have a center. I wish mankind grew out of the disease of religion, but it doesn't look like there is going to be a cure any time soon. The only hope is to try to teach people how to think for themselves and have no need for Lords and such.Takis Konstantopouloshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14675216467783238403noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-73046741079013097482010-08-10T04:20:54.208-04:002010-08-10T04:20:54.208-04:00Thanks, Takis, for setting me straight. I'll b...Thanks, Takis, for setting me straight. I'll be sure to chastise my friends, Raheel Raza, Tarek Fatah, and Neda Bolourchi for their negative, bigoted reaction about the mosque.<br /><br />http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Mischief+Manhattan/3370303/story.html<br />"we Muslims know the idea behind the Ground Zero mosque is meant to be a deliberate provocation to thumb our noses at the infidel. The proposal has been made in bad faith and in Islamic parlance, such an act is referred to as "Fitna," meaning "mischief-making" that is clearly forbidden in the Koran."<br /><br />and<br /><br />http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/08/06/AR2010080603006.html<br />"A Muslim victim of 9/11: 'Build your mosque somewhere else' ... The proposed center in New York may be heralded as a peace offering — may genuinely seek to focus on “promoting integration, tolerance of difference and community cohesion through arts and culture,” as its Web site declares — but I fear that over time, it will cultivate a fundamentalist version of the Muslim faith, embracing those who share such beliefs and hating those who do not. "<br /><br />PS: Jeffrey, I like your succinct answer to Anonymous.Mirandanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-86612125513614570202010-08-09T21:56:08.097-04:002010-08-09T21:56:08.097-04:00Anonymous:
Back when I looked into such claims, I...Anonymous:<br /><br />Back when I looked into such claims, I found that most of them were easily explained by people who didn't understand time zones.Jeffrey Shallithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12763971505497961430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-14722380009627804802010-08-09T10:01:39.395-04:002010-08-09T10:01:39.395-04:00This is a bit of a tangent, but there were a coupl...This is a bit of a tangent, but there were a couple of credible stories of forewarnings of 9/11. The first may be the inspiration for the "Jews were warned" woo-woo that you mention: multiple executives of Israeli instant messaging firm Odigo reported receiving warnings of the attack a couple of hours prior:<br />http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/odigo-says-workers-were-warned-of-attack-1.70579<br /><br />Willie Brown reported receiving advance warnings:<br />http://articles.sfgate.com/2001-09-12/news/17616221_1_airport-security-mayor-willie-brown-city-hall<br /><br />There was also a Pakistani grade school student in Brooklyn who claimed on September 6 that the WTC buildings would not "be there" the next week:<br />http://www.newsweek.com/2001/10/11/between-the-lines-online-a-chilling-tale.html<br /><br />Lots more cited here, with varying degrees of credibility:<br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11_attacks_advance-knowledge_debateAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-87368244351290866002010-08-06T15:56:43.413-04:002010-08-06T15:56:43.413-04:00What I find rather amusing in Miranda's first ...What I find rather amusing in Miranda's first comment is this:<br /><br /><em>If they build an Islamic "community center" near Ground Zero, it will be just another location where they have marked their conquest. (such as their Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem, the Hagia Sofia church, and Moors' Cordoba.)</em><br /><br />In other words, she seems to be thinking in terms of "Islam against Christianity". This is totally irrelevant. The 9/11 attack had nothing to do with this (only in the minds of fundamentalists of both religions).<br /><br />On the other hand, what does Hagia Sophia have to do with the proposed Islamic Center in New York? Hagia Sophia was a Christian church that was tranformed into a mosque after the Ottomans captured Constantinople. Christians did similar things when they captured other other people's lands. Hagia Sophia has been a mosque ever since 1453 CE and that's that. (And who cares?)<br /><br />Second, what does the conquest of Cordoba in 711 CE have to do with the proposed Islamic Center in New York? As Nygdan mentioned above, the period that followed was a period of great development: Cordoba became one of the most advanced cities in the world, a cultural, political, financial and economic center and had the largest library in the world. A bit later, Arabs too, built the "House of Wisdom" in Baghdad which (until its destruction by the Mongols) was a great center of learning and discovery (mathematics, philosophy, medicine,... paper-making,... Al-Khwarizmi,...) At a time when Christians (both in Byzantium and the West) were hypnotized by their religion which demanded them <b>not to think</b> because thinking was devil's work, Cordoba and other Arabic centers preserved, promoted, and expanded upon older science (e.g. Greek mathematics). Had it not been for them, we would not have had Renaissance. <br /><br />I don't know much about the Dome of the Rock. I believe it was constructed by Muslims in the 7th c. CE, later captured by Christian crusaders and transformed into a church, and then back by Muslims who made it into a mosque. Again, I fail to see why this is a mark of "their" conquest. Christians do leave their marks too.<br /><br />So, the three examples Miranda gave are irrelevant.<br /><br />Actually, what Miranda should do is try to find the two typos in Jeffrey Shallit's posting. Like she usually does :-)<br /><br /><br />P.S. As for Steve Beckow's blog, I particularly like <a href="http://sbeckow.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/british-ufo.jpg" rel="nofollow">this</a> eye-witness drawing of a UFO in the UK. Clearly, UFOs exist. And, clearly, this Steve Beckow is very credible.Takis Konstantopouloshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14675216467783238403noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-5296638342672069642010-08-06T14:10:16.345-04:002010-08-06T14:10:16.345-04:00"Sorry, but there's no exception in the C..."Sorry, but there's no exception in the Constitution for ugly religions that you don't like."<br /><br />Need I repeat myself that I agree with this?<br /><br />"So, can I count on your support to oppose it when some Christian group...that wants to make the Bible the supreme law of the land wants to build a church? "<br /><br />Yes, you can count on my opposition. But note: "oppose" has a wide range of definitions. My only plan to oppose it is to share my comments on small time blogs like yours. In other words, when I said I oppose it, all I <i>meant</i> is that I don't like it.<br /><br />Nygdan wrote: "Its an Islamic Cultural center."<br /><br />Not a mosque at all? Just askin'.<br /><br />"Bottom line, the reason there is hostility to this building is because of a fear of muslims, and a stereotypical attribution to all muslims of militancy, secret or otherwise."<br /><br />Nygdan seems to be the expert at stereotyping. In no way do I attribute militancy to ALL Muslims.Mirandanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-79309388972232863312010-08-06T12:36:33.027-04:002010-08-06T12:36:33.027-04:00"What is bigoted about my reason?"
You ..."What is bigoted about my reason?"<br /><br />You mean other than everything?Tyhttp://www.unreasonablefaith.comnoreply@blogger.com