tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post8467362883930428417..comments2023-12-21T06:35:36.624-05:00Comments on Recursivity: The World's Not "Broken"Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-28460828394615342372015-01-24T16:19:11.219-05:002015-01-24T16:19:11.219-05:00And now Learned Hand has been silently banned afte...And now Learned Hand has been silently banned after trying to conduct a civil discussion on this thread: http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/the-credulity-of-the-champions-of-science/<br />It's been very enlightening to read the site the past few days. What an intellectual graveyard.Jeffohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06989946392105339862noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-13002131776424888382015-01-24T16:13:41.220-05:002015-01-24T16:13:41.220-05:00It seems Learned Hand has been banned. Barry got r...It seems Learned Hand has been banned. Barry got rid of him without warning, in mid conversation and with a question left unanswered.<br /><br />http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/the-credulity-of-the-champions-of-science/#comment-543888<br /><br />http://www.antievolution.org/cgi-bin/ikonboard/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=14;t=7640;st=2550#entry240945Piotr Gąsiorowskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06339278493073512102noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-71733736801737943022015-01-20T22:30:25.459-05:002015-01-20T22:30:25.459-05:00Barry and Learned Hand continue to spar.
Barry: ...Barry and Learned Hand continue to spar. <br /><br /><b>Barry</b>: <i>"I understand your snark though; you think that if my writing at UD reflects my practice, I could not possibly win.</i>"<br /><br /><b>Learned Hand</b>: <i>"I don’t think that your blogging demonstrates the quality of your briefs; just the quality of your thinking and character.</i>"<br /><br />It still amazes me that Learned Hand has not been banned. Could it be that Barry is too stupid to realize that e has been insulted?<br /><br />William Spearshakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09354659259971103985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-52562075869249400982015-01-20T18:37:08.278-05:002015-01-20T18:37:08.278-05:00Barry goes on to say that what he means by "b...<i><br />Barry goes on to say that what he means by "broken" is that "there is the way things are and there is the way things should be and the two are not the same". Well, that's not the usually-understood sense of the word.<br /></i><br /><br />I think this understanding is reminiscent of Platonism, as well as the religious notion of The Fall. I think it goes beyond a moral interpretation and includes things like being appalled that spiders give birth to many more offspring than actually survive, fruits fall to the ground without being eaten (at least by something bigger than bacteria that can appreciate the taste), stars explode and take planets with them, etc.<br /><br />It's not always religiously motivated. I vaguely remember Annie Dillard riffing on similar thoughts in Pilgrim at Tinker Creek (which I read over 30 years ago, so take it with a grain of salt).<br /><br />So I don't think it is that unusual, but I've long believed it's an <i>awfully ungrateful</i> way of looking at the universe. Humans have some notion of how things should behave in an "orderly" fashion, and it is these preconceptions that approximate reality. The Platonist fallacy is to imagine that reality is a poor approximation to human preconception.<br /><br />Plato can be put in historical context, but there is no excuse for such a viewpoint today.<br /><br />I often reflect that for all the toil, the pain, the shortness of life, reality is still a lot more than we could ever ask for. I imagine a hypothetical rebuttal from the God of Genesis: "You idiot! What are you smiling about? Can't you see that it's all messed up? It's supposed to be much better, and this mess is all your fault because of Original Sin."<br /><br />(OK, sorry, but it still seems pretty amazing to me.)<br /><br />In this sense, I feel that part of religious indoctrination is to feel less grateful for the world as it actually is, and this is where the "broken" thing is coming from.Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05140694525853737770noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-76486886694584429412015-01-17T03:35:18.791-05:002015-01-17T03:35:18.791-05:00Learned Hand is also a lawyer (he says so somewher...Learned Hand is also a lawyer (he says so somewhere in the "Broken" thread), so apparently, as in other walks of life, there are highly intelligent lawyers, and there are not quite so highly imtelligent ones.<br /><br />Brave, brave, brave Sir Barry!Piotr Gąsiorowskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06339278493073512102noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-24520177818295834262015-01-16T17:59:43.914-05:002015-01-16T17:59:43.914-05:00Barry keeps doubling down. Incapable of being able...Barry keeps doubling down. Incapable of being able to counter the arguments presented by Learned Hand and others in his <i>Broken</i> OP, he posted a separate OP calling Aurelio Smith <b>aggresively stupid</b>, with no link to the original thread. <br /><br />He has now posted another separate OP quoting a comment made by W J Murray made on Barry's original OP (again, with no link provided). He ended the most recent OP with the following:<br /><br /><i>"WJM’s interlocutor at this time was a buffoon who styles himself “hrun0815.” Said buffoon responded to the comment as follows:<br /><br />“Yes, yes, WJM. TL;DR about your whole diatribe.” I take it that “TL;DR” is internet shorthand for “too long; didn’t read.” If that is the case, hrun0815 has proven himself unworthy of being taken seriously on these pages, and I would encourage our readers and posters simply to ignore him."</i><br /><br />So, his responses to well presented arguments against his opinions is to call his opponents <b>aggresively stupid buffoons</b>. I must have missed that class on argument techniques in law school. [for the record, I never went to law school, but it wouldn't have sounded right if I said marine biology school].<br />William Spearshakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09354659259971103985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-8795430464309378872015-01-16T14:12:39.463-05:002015-01-16T14:12:39.463-05:00After getting thoroughly beaten up on the original...After getting thoroughly beaten up on the original post, Barry opted to create a new post criticizing a comment made by one of his opponents.<br /><br />http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/yes-mobs-are-famous-for-respecting-the-rights-of-minorities/<br /><br />"<i>Sometimes it is useful to highlight some of the more aggressively stupid things that materialists say:<br /><br />Stephen B:<br />How do you decide if the government has over-stepped its authority?<br /><br />Aurelio Smith:<br />In a democracy, you can assert it and see if anyone agrees.</i>"<br /><br />This is the entire OP. Aside from the obnoxiously arrogant and rude first sentence, the little coward did not include a link to the original comment. Maybe it is because he didn't want people to see how Learned Hand and a couple others were completely ripping apart his argument, and the arguments made by Barry's "fellow traveller". Or maybe it was because he had so blatantly quoted Aurelio Smith out of context that even his cheering squad could see through it.<br /><br />This was Aurelio Smith's actual words, in context.<br /><br /><i>"In a democracy, you can assert it and see if anyone agrees. In a democracy, you can protest and campaign for change. You can vote against a government you don’t like and persuade others to do likewise."</i>William Spearshakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09354659259971103985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-66841577200458312552015-01-16T02:41:04.810-05:002015-01-16T02:41:04.810-05:00Did you notice how hastily Barry Arrington ran awa...Did you notice how hastily Barry Arrington ran away from the discussion? The <i>only</i> thing he said directly to LH was #3 (a smokescreen to cover his retreat):<br /><br /><i>LH @ 1:<br /><br />Here’s the thing about your comment: You didn’t actually attempt to refute (far less refute) a single thing I said. Note to LH: A mishmash of </i>ad hominem<i> and </i>tu quoque<i> does not an argument make.</i><br /><br />LH's characterisation of KF's debating style is hilarious but dead accurate, by the way.Piotr Gąsiorowskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06339278493073512102noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20067416.post-62199710290734233632015-01-15T15:44:44.048-05:002015-01-15T15:44:44.048-05:00Learned Hand has even taken on Gordon (KairosFocus...Learned Hand has even taken on Gordon (KairosFocus) Mullings.<br /><br /><i>"I’m sorry KF, but you don’t seem to be having quite the same conversation as the rest of us. If you’d like to join it I’d be happy to discuss things with you, but your digressions are neither interesting nor significant to me. And for myself, I find your writing to be extremely turgid. I’ve asked a couple of times that you make an effort to make your points as clearly and succinctly as possible; I got more block-quote digressions, martyrdom claims, fishing anecdotes, and doomsday prophecies."</i><br /><br />At this rate, he is not long for UD. Especially after Gordo's "corrections".William Spearshakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09354659259971103985noreply@blogger.com