Friday, June 01, 2012

Don't Attend Crandall University

There are a lot of reasons not to attend Crandall University in Moncton, New Brunswick, Canada. For one thing, it used to be Atlantic Baptist College, and today it still describes itself as "Atlantic Canada’s Leading Liberal Arts University Devoted to the Christian Faith". Its motto is "Christ is preeminent". Not surprisingly, it gets crappy ratings, with this place rating it 7748 out of 11,000 North American universities, and 91st out of 98 Canadian universities.

Now there's yet another reason: the people who run it are bigots who won't hire a gay person in a gay relationship.


Galactor said...

I took a quick look at their website to see if they have a doctrinal statement of the like of Talbot Theology School but they don't as far as I can tell.

I wondered what their science teaching might be and you can read a PDF on applying for a science course in biology.

Not one whiff, in a four year course, of the rancid stench of evolution.

How strange.

Interestingly though, is section of

Special Program Highlights

where you can:

• Take courses that help you gain more than the skills of a biologist. A degree in Biology from Crandall will help you develop as a human being.

That's right; studying science will aid your humanistic development at Crandall.

When I studied physics, I can't remember how learning atomic theory aided my development as a human being. Nor quantum physics, solid state physics, electronics, acoustics, particle physics and so on. In fact, I can recall not one subject that was taught in a way that aided my development as a human being.

Clearly, Crandall has a lot to offer the scientist who lacks any source in their development as a human being.

Ipswitch said...

Maybe they followed Jerry Coyne's line of thinking when he said: "evolution hasn't yielded many practical or commercial benefits. Yes, bacteria evolve drug resistance and, yes, we must take countermeasures, but beyond that there is not much to say." He added, "In science's pecking order, evolutionary biology lurks somewhere near the bottom, far closer to phrenology than to physics."

Jeffrey Shallit said...

That makes perfect sense, Ipswitch! And certainly universities should never teach anything unless it has practcial benefits! That's why universities never teach anything like Latin, art history, or string theory!

Anyway, Coyne is wrong. To see why, read Why We Get Sick by Nesse and Williams.

CrandallAlum said...

While I won't necessarily comment to the entirety of this thread, I will say, as an Alumnus of Crandall University who holds a B.Sc in Biopsychology, Evolution is most definitely studied. In fact, how can one be called a biologist without the basic understanding of evolution? Furthermore, my degree was comprised of such courses as genetics, ecology, zoology, environmental adaptations, to name a few. To those who have studied such courses understand that evolution is a key and crucial component.

Ipswitch said...

"To those who have studied such courses understand that evolution is a key and crucial component."
I notice that you left out psychology, your major. For such a degree, it's only key and crucial in order that you get your degree. Applying evolution to psychology -- and there are a few psychologists who will admit this -- is riddled with story telling.

Anonymous said...

I attended Crandall University in its Atlantic Baptist College days, and I am disgusted and embarrassed to have ever set foot in such a discriminatory and inhumane post-secondary atmosphere. By my second year of BA studies, the censorship of the students' television watching, games played on our own time, holidays we celebrated, music we enjoyed, causes we supported, volunteer work we undertook, and the general 'big brother is watching' mentality of the college drove me out by Christmas. I was 22 years old and too damn mature and independent to be manipulated and controlled so offensively.

Upon transferring to secular universities for my liberal arts studies and later the local community college for post-diploma studies, I found that no secular colleges and universities in Canada would accept my Crandall University credits for transfer, and all of my marks more than met the transfer requirements of all institutions. Crandall University, this private Baptist school, was deemed unrecognized by every non-religious college and university in the entire country. I had to start my arts program over from square one. I thank my good sense to have only spent three semesters at Crandall!

To this day and at this very time, Crandall University is NOT recognized for credit-for-credit transfer by any secular college or university in Canada. Crandall profits from the ignorance and naivety of its current and future students. No one who knows the many alarming failings of this school would ever attend it.

My family has many friends who are either gay or bisexual, and we applaud their liberality. When I had my two children, I became aware that the Baptist church/college instruction I received in my youth and adulthood had no place in the modern world and certainly not in my family's life. I chose to do better for my children than my family, teachers, ministers, and Baptist professors did for me. I ended all future contact with and support for Crandall University, and I gradually and reflectively transformed myself into an educated and contented atheist. It was like coming home.

Crandall University's VP, Seth Crowell, is a good talker with an ever-handy political response to any opposition to questionable or objectionable school policies, including 'his' institution's position on refusing to employ anyone from the GLBT community; but only fools listen to Seth's conniving BS. He is a self-serving phony, whose over-confident, smiley manipulations only fool backward, over-protected, and underdeveloped young conservative Christians. Older students and alumni who accept Seth's rubbish do so merely in the hope of installing themselves and family members in positions of influence within the Convention of Atlantic Baptist Churches.

Do NOT attend Crandall University. Obtain a real education for your money at a recognized secular college or university; and learn to be an informed, non-judgemental, and effective member of the human race - beyond biblical condemnation and nonsense.

Burdette Wilson (Kent)

Will not be bullied said...

One of the comments made reference to an article in which the interviewee said "I'm not an academic or a scholar but I would say any organization that uses the term university and prides itself on freedom of expression, freedom of thought, the exhange of different points of view, wouldn't have a policy that's been described to me." THis comment was made right at the end of the article. I believe that I need to speak out and point out the fact that right from the very beginning in elementary school we are taught a very specific cericulum that is very secular and devoid of vary view points. We are taught that evolution is a fact when infact that are many scientist with concerns about the validity of the evolution theory who have presented and gained support for their theories (ie. creation). I believe that this University can definitely claim that they pride themselves in freedom of expression, freedom of thought, and the echange of different points of view. Since they are teaching something different than what secular schooling or society has conditioned us to believe is the only valid truth, and that no other truth has any validity.
Further in reference to Autumn Pearl Wilson's comment implying that the University is judgemental, I find it very sad that nobody else seems to recognize just how riddled with judgement her comment is. I am sorry that her credits were not recognized within "secular" society but that is because oppossing views to the "secular" viewpoint are greatly discouraged and punished. For freedom of speach that requires that "all" in society should have a platform for which they may speak freely and not be punished or ridiculed for it. There are very valid arguments for Christianity and creation within our world but they are not given a platform because their ideas are different than what we are programed to believe within our public school system. I am not an ignorant individual with no understanding of the world in fact I believe I have a very clear understanding of the world. As I have conducted my own faith walk to determin what I know to be true I have researched tried and tested and know that what I believe is truth and I have not been swayed by other's ideas just because they are my pastor or teacher.

Jeffrey Shallit said...

Evolution is a fact.

If your particular religious sect demands that it didn't happen, then your sect is false and nothing can be done to save it.

when infact that are many scientist with concerns about the validity of the evolution theory who have presented and gained support for their theories (ie. creation)

"Creation" is not a theory in the scientific sense. The fact that you think it is shows you have not been educated. I suggest you demand your money back.

Are there a tiny minority of scientific crackpots who don't accept evolution? Yes, but there are also scientific crackpots who disbelieve relativity. No one is obliged to take them seriously.

Finally, your spelling, grammar, and sentence structure show that, in fact, you are indeed ignorant. Again, try to get your money back.

Will not be bullied said...

Well if a few slips of the finger while typing make you ignorant than there are an awful lot of ignorant people out there. Even you clearly cannot seem to come up with a response to the valid arguments that I made so instead you decided to grade my poste. You are just skirting the real issue at hand. By the way there are real scientist out there who can prove creation. I would rather believe that I was created with intention for a purpose than believe that I am a primate's distant relative. There are many things in our world that evolution and science are simply not able to explain.

Will not be bullied said...

P.S. didn't and isn,t are not proper use of the english language either and almost everyone who has posted on your blog has error of some sort. I guess those who substantiate your arguments do not deserve to have their papers graded while you skirt the real issue. The real issue is that you just want smear a school to gain some notoriety.

Jeffrey Shallit said...

clearly cannot seem to come up with a response to the valid arguments

You made no valid arguments, and I responded to everything you said. Why do you lie?

I would rather believe

Yes, creationists would rather believe the lies of their sect than the truth. We all know that.

There are many things in our world that evolution and science are simply not able to explain.

Of course there are! That's why science is exciting and fun. We don't lie and pretend we have all the answers.

By the way there are real scientist out there who can prove creation

Then they're not scientists, because science is not in the business of proof.

Demand your money back! You're just as ignorant as when you arrived at Crandall.

Will not be bullied said...

Science is all about finding proof and evidence to support an individuals theory how do you think the idea of evolution came out thousands of years after the birth of creation. Darwin came out with the theory and then went out to try and give credence to it. Creation however is able to explain those lacks in evolution theory. What is it exactly that makes your thought truth and everyone else's thought simply rediculous. The reason people are wanting to believe the ape thing so much is because they want nothing to do with a God who loves them because something within the church has turned them away. Unfortunately humans make mistakes and they do not always know how to deal with those mistakes in an appropriate manner. There is a reason this is called the Christian walk because we live in a world that wants nothing to do with God so it can be easy to be swayed by the things of this world and the hurts and pains that are the result of a broken world that wants to reject a loving God.I myself have never attended Crandall University, I just believe that Christians deserve to attend a school of their choosing just like everyone else that does not shove their ideas of truth down their throats. We live in a world that proclaims tolerance, but it is 100% intolerant only in the issue of Christianity, how interesting, yet Christianity continues to grow and thrive. We have survived persecution and will continue to survive it because we know that there are far better things greating us on the other side. My father died 6 weeks before my wedding from Lukemia and even that will not defeat me because I know that Lukemia was not a part of God's perfect plan but simply the result of living in a world that chooses to try and rid itself of God. If not for God my father would not have beat the lukemia twice befor when he had no business surviving lukemia even the first time let alone the second time. Your science which is devoid of God was simply speechless because my Dad was written off for dead 3 times. My father had AML which if you know anything about Leukemia pretty well no one survives it and my dad was told we would die, but then God stepped in and my dad survived it. My dad even survived a stem cell transplant that left him with only a 20% chance of survival after living through leukemia twice where the doctors prepared the family for the inevitability of death and sent him home to die. If you know anything about transplants though you know that they have a life span and while my dad eventually died but we gained a whole 10 years longer with my father as a result of the power of God. I know that one day I will see my father again in a far better place than this world could ever offer me, I know this because God has always done what he has said he would do which means that he will continue to do what he has said he will do.

I know that you will pick this appart but the fact remains that your science leaves many large gaps in which their is only one explanation and that is God.

Jeffrey Shallit said...

Science is all about finding proof and evidence to support an individuals theory

Evidence, yes. Proof, no. I'm sorry you were not educated properly, but there is still hope. Read a book about the philosophy of science. "Proof" is a feature of mathematics, not science. Every conclusion of science is provisional.

Darwin came out with the theory and then went out to try and give credence to it.

You've evidently never read anything by or about Darwin, since this is not what happened. Darwin started out believing in special creation, and was convinced otherwise by the evidence.

What is it exactly that makes your thought truth and everyone else's thought simply rediculous.

Not everyone else - just you. You speak with confidence of things you know nothing about.

The reason people are wanting to believe the ape thing so much is because they want nothing to do with a God

This is preposterous - many, perhaps even most, evolutionary biologists are Christians. Read Finding Darwin's God by Christian Kenneth Miller.

I just believe that Christians deserve to attend a school of their choosing

And exactly who is preventing them from doing so?

we gained a whole 10 years longer with my father as a result of the power of God

No, it was the power of your father's doctors.

Will not be bullied said...

Actually the doctors, as I had mentioned, gave up on my Dad, wrote the death certificate and sent him home to die on one occassion and on the second occassion he was supposed to leave the hospital in a body bag. The doctors had nothing to do with my Dad's recovery. Even my dad's specialist was completely speechless along with numerous other specialists. The chemo was long out of his system before my dad's recovery began. Sorry but this one you cannot explain away. If many specialists could not explain my fathers recovery, then you better believe that you do not have the slightest chance of being able to explain this one away. Good luck trying. This is "will not be bullied" signing off because beyond this point nothing else needs to be said. You have closed your mind even though science lacks a reasonable explanation in this case.

Jeffrey Shallit said...

wrote the death certificate

Yeah, right. Doctors never "write a death certificate" unless the patient has died.

The doctors had nothing to do with my Dad's recovery.

Yeah, right. By your own account they gave him a "stem cell transplant". I suppose that had nothing to do with it at all.

Sorry but this one you cannot explain away.

Spontaneous remission occurs in leukemia all the time. I know, because I had two cousins who died of it.

You want there to be no explanation.

Jeffrey Shallit said...

Why doesn't your god ever heal amputees?

Eohippus said...

Crandall bigots will get $6 million in infrastructure funding from our government:

Kevin said...

So why can't this school do their own thing like other schools? Get off the dime and go to some other school if this doesn't match your life!

Jeffrey Shallit said...

Sure thing, Kev. Just like I bet you would have had no problem with segregated lunch counters in the south, right?

Unknown said...

I don't mean to be rude, but you are telling me that there is something wrong with a christian university teaching and preaching the gospel, if you don't think that a christian university shouldn't reject someone because they are gay then you shouldn't be going to a christian university because that means that they are following the Bible and God! my friends are gay and the man I'm engaged to used to be but that doesn't mean the church needs to change just because society or people has

Jeffrey Shallit said...

Thanks for your comment.

I don't think Christianity and higher education are really compatible, so the idea of a Christian university seems like an oxymoron to me.

As for not hiring a gay person, do you mean to tell me that Crandall wouldn't hire an adulterer, either? Because that's also proscribed by the Bible. Let me know when you find that one in Crandall's regulations.

Also, if you can find the "Thou shalt not hire a gay person to work at thy universities" in the Bible, let me know that, too.

As for the man you're engaged to "used to be gay", good luck with that.

Finally, you do realize that your kind of reasoning ("the church [doesn't] need to change") is exactly the same kind of reasoning used to justify the discrimination against black people in the Southern US for years?

Unknown said...

Dear Pretending-to-be-bullied:

Let's see how open Crandall U is to advocates of socialism or communism, advocates of war against banksters or war against factory farms or war against all prisons of the world to free all prisons, or advocates of animal rights, or advocates of antinatalism, or UFO advocates, or feminist advocates, or advocates of freedom to view pornography & free sexual choice rights, not just heterosexual or even just LGBT rights, or advocates of war against fossil fuel, or anti-war advocates.

Not just opinions with which I agree or you agree, but ALL opinions on ANY subject that DON'T ALREADY HAVE MASSIVE SUPPORT BY LARGE WELL-FUNDED INSTITUTIONS OR ORGANIZATIONS (whether nations or corporations or political parties).

Unknown said...

To quote an old Homer Simpsonism:

"OMG! I've been calling her [Mrs Krabapple] CRANDALL!"

Crandall U students should be required to declare upon graduation:
"OMG! I've been calling this a degree!"

F005 said...

Honestly, as a student going to Crandall simply because it is the only english university available in my city that offers the program that I want, I can say that as long as you can learn to "tolerate" the bigots and religious bs that goes on, its not so bad. The courses and material are presented in a way that is to be expected from a university so the quality of the education is there, if you can tune out the many attempts that the university makes at making everything "christian". If you can keep the mentality of "i'm here for my degree and that it" you can get a decent education. Mind you if given the option I would not be going to Crandall, but financially, i'll tolerate a few bigots and sheltered classmates over extra expenses.

Ps: it does suck that i have to hide my sexuality, I'm bi and regularly hear the university's opinion on people like myself, like I said, the people going there are a minority compared to the population, so for myself it doesn't matter.

Unknown said...

Nearly all academic institution in North America can trace their roots to Christian heritage. Harvard and Yale were originally Puritan, Princeton was originally Presbyterian hence the motto "Under God she flourishes". I recently attended Crandall and do not identify with any religion. I had a great experience and respected the insight and knowledge of all of my professors even when my view differed from theirs. Education should offer challenging views and as students you should be prepared to confront your own. Rather than judging the path this university has taken to establish itself, respect the fact that it is a legitimate University and offers excellent education in fields other than Theology.

Jeffrey Shallit said...

By any objective standard, it does not offer "excellent education". That's why it is ranked so low.

The Christian roots of other universities have no impact at all on whether Crandall is a good university, or whether the people who run it are bigots.

Based on this comment, I'd say you should ask for your money back.

Qawii said...

I first heard about evolution in grade 8- West side school, New Glasgow, NS. It was introduced as the THEORY of evolution, not as the science thereof. So I considered the "theory." Thousands of mutations, survival of the fit, slow die off of the unfit, A NEVER ENDING PROCESS OVER THE CENTURIES, MILLENNIA, STILL GOING ON TODAY.
"So," I said,"I should be surrounded by hundreds of thousands of beings till showing proof of that theory; but where are they? Well I guess I will scrap the theory of evolution."
Now that was 65 years ago and in that time period I've only seen one clear example that somebody might offer as proof of inferior human species:
- the phd - the pig headed dummy
And then there was Hitler and - oh yes- Stalin as well- both strong believers in Darwinian evolution.
BTW, you brave souls- WHY DO YOU NOT HAVE THE GUTS TO ATTACK ISLAM? Oh I get it:
You have evolved into secular humanism and have become soft accepting liberals (accepting -excepting for Christians)

Jeffrey Shallit said...

I am sorry you are so poorly educated, but there are probably community colleges you can attend. Or buy an evolutionary biology textbook.

If you make even the slightest effort you can find my writings about Islam. It is, in my opinion, a dangerous delusion like Christianity, and in its militant forms a danger to the world. But Christianity currently poses a greater threat in North America than Islam does (in the world at large, that is not the case).

Qawii said...

No I was just smart enough back in grade 8 to figure out what some Phd's still cannot grasp. But they got their education in the system and they obey that same system which pays them well to tow the line. I was a school teacher later on and was quite disgusted with the mentality formed by today's National Socialists
But I served my country in the RCAF. I want the best for it. But I can still think. Of course in order to get my education I went to a few Universities. Hon. BA, MA, Med, Dip. Th. .... my brain still works- overtime! But I still cannot understand why those who have studied the history of civilization show an obvious bigoted hate for Christians who gave them our basic Canadian values, democracy, who defeated slavery and who still lead the way in caring for the hurting, the addicted, refugees and the like.
BTW: 1)How many Christian acts of terrorism in Canada have you seen in the news in the last 20 years or so? NONE!!!!
2) How many MUSLIM acts of terrorism in Canada have you seen in the news? XYXYXYXYXY, +/- So we are more dangerous than them? Oh! I think you mean our arguments make you nervous ... somebody might think you are wrong!

In your reply tell me about the book which can hold a candle to the Bible when it comes to predictions, the fulfillment of which are verifiable through archeology and in the writings of famous historians, even those who were not Christians and were even known to contest our beliefs.
Or, yourself, give me the weather report for the next 14 years. But Joseph gave such a weather forecast to the pharaoh and its fulfillment got him a big job in Egypt. Then along came Moses and his predicting of the first 9 plagues. 1-2-3- √√√√√√√√√- 9 right every time √. So the Israelite slaves were convinced that he was speaking for God. "Put the blood on the lintels of your doors and the angel of death will pass over you," said Moses. (It's not written there, but I bet they asked-"How thick? Moses, how thick?") Anyway more than a million were set free. Every year after that they commemorated Passover and they still do it today.
"Oh," the unbeliever says,: That is one more fable in the Bible!" Oh yeah- with one million plus WITNESSES of the event who is going to make up a story to brainwash their entire nation ??? A couple of centuries later they repeat, “My great, great grandfather was there. He told my grandfather about it and he told my Dad. It's true! Thank God ! And I will celebrate Passover with Dad and Grandpa every year -- and with Mom and Grammy to of course. How about you Shimon? You've heard the same story? Yes and you Esther? Oh yeah .. All of you have your hands up!!! Hallelujah!!"

Jeffrey Shallit said...

Oh, yeah, that makes sense. A 13-year-old (assuming that's how old you were in grade 8, although I suspect you might have been older then) who has not read any research into evolutionary biology and never read a college-level textbook, decides to reject it because it conflicts with his faith. And that makes you smarter than other people. Don't you see how ridiculous you look?

"How many Christian acts of terrorism in Canada have you seen in the news in the last 20 years or so?" I guess you never heard of James Kopp?

"2) How many MUSLIM acts of terrorism in Canada have you seen in the news?" Very few, actually. You can read about them here: . I have no love for Islam, but at least no Canadian Muslims have tried to get me fired the way Christians have.

I don't believe the stories in your bible, sorry. The "predictions" it claims are either a matter of crazy interpretation, or people deliberately trying to fulfill prophecies they were told about. Claims that your bible is supported by archaeology are also largely untrue. For example, .

Jeffrey Shallit said...

Don't forget Justin Bourque, either.

Corey said...

Qawli, Muslim extremeist groups, such as ISIS and Danesh, do not believe in evolution. The Quran, Surah 50:38 states "And verily We created the heavens and the earth, and all that is between them, in six Days, and naught of weariness touched Us."

Ingomar said...

Serving on a PSSC committee I have learned that a lot of the school ranking systems are bias and really don't reflect the schools ability to "edcuate" (mispelt on purpose for dem grammar nazis)

Crandall also stopped taking finances from the city of Moncton making it more of a private institution than ever.

Even Eldon Hay, one of Crandall's biggest critiquers, said "he has no objections to Crandall setting its own policies if it raises its own money." (Cited from above article).

Just an update. I know the thread was created in 2012 at the height of the situation.

Peace out.

Jeffrey Shallit said...

Did their employment policy change? If not, my opinion of them stands.

By the way, it's "are biased", not "are bias". Another proud Crandall alumnus?

TAJ said...

I spent the last hour analyzing and reading all the comments, and all I see is an individual that is claiming to be “educated” yet not being open to seeing both sides of the argument being made. To understand fully is to weigh both viewpoints after extensive research. You have your opinion and that is all that fuels your typing skills. Come back with real facts other than Wikipedia pages. Christianity is what founded this country and it is society that has warped it into such a disorganized “cult” of bigots as you have described them. So again, you fail to recognize the underlying history and societal founding that this religion has played in your life as in mine. So to say Crandall is a bad school (due to ratings) and no one should go there is totally ridiculous.

Jeffrey Shallit said...

Why do you feel that Wikipedia pages do not contain facts? What precisely do you dispute about the page I referenced?

"Christianity" did not found the US. Some founders were Christians, but not all.

It is the official doctrine of the Catholic Church that gay people are "disordered". If that is not bigotry, what is?

If Crandall is rated poorly by education professionals, that's a good reason to avoid it -- as it its institutional bigotry.

You come across as someone whose point of view is threatened, and you have no response except this word salad.

OnlyMe said...

"...the people who run it are bigots who won't hire a gay person in a gay relationship."
EXACTLY why I will send my children there. Go read Romans, dude. A lot of vitriolic verbal diarrhea here. They must have snubbed you, or something. I detect sour grapes. Save your whining, man! Go over to that corner with the Trudeope liberals.

Jeffrey Shallit said...

They must have snubbed you, or something.

Oh, you are so right! Just ask any professor at a top university in Canada! They're all dying to move from a university that's rated 6th in Canada and 73rd worldwide to one rated 91st in Canada and 7752nd worldwide!

Go read Romans, dude.

Do you regard the Sutras, the Vedas, or the Koran as binding on you? Then similarly your religious text is not binding on me.

EXACTLY why I will send my children there.

With luck, your children will soon outgrow your bigotry.

Crandall said...

In the Fall of 2019, two Human Rights complaints were filed against Crandall University. We just heard back from the New Brunswick Human Rights Commission that the grounds for the complaints are valid and they will be contacting the University and individuals named in the complaints for a response.

The potential problem is that the Human Rights Commission isn’t sure it has jurisdiction, since Crandall is a “private” university. The complaints were accepted on the grounds of discrimination in regards to sexuality, religion, sexual orientation, and several other points, all of which were accepted as valid in light of the evidence provided (both complaints each had nearly a 100 pages of testimony, emails, screenshots, letters, etc).

If the result is that the Human Rights Commission validates the grounds of discrimination but can’t do anything about it because of lack of jurisdiction, it essentially means that Crandall University is allowed to openly discriminate against non-Christian students without any means of recourse. Likening members the LGBT community to “dirty menstrual rags” and publicly calling Muslim students “children of Satan”, is, as far as the Human Rights Code of New Brunswick is concerned, exactly the same as saying to black students “you were born to serve the white race.” The Code doesn’t present a hierarchy of discrimination, it treats discrimination based on race, religion, sexuality, etc, equally. So, Crandall could espouse KKK rhetoric and, while they’d be very naughty, they’d ultimately be permitted to do so as far as the Province is concerned.

AI said...

You beat me to it.

Know that you have a cheerleader.